How can operators create excellent resident experiences? Revel Communities COO Danette Opaczewski shares her rich background in hospitality and her unique perspective on the importance of team retention and how to create high-quality environments that enrich the lives of residents.

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This episode was recorded at the NIC Fall Conference.

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Produced by Solinity Marketing.

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Intro

Welcome to season seven of Bridge The Gap, a podcast dedicated to informing, educating, and influencing the future of housing and services for seniors. Powered by sponsors Accushield, Aline, NIC MAP Vision, Procare HR, Sage, Hamilton CapTel, Service Master, The Bridge Group Construction and Solinity. Produced by Solinity Marketing.

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00:35 - 00:47

Lucas McCurdy

Welcome to Bridge the Gap podcast, the senior Living podcast with Josh and Lucas here in our nation's capital today in DC at the Fall Net Conference. I want to welcome a great guest to the program, Danette Opaczewski with Revel. Welcome to the show.

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00:48 - 00:49

Danette Opaczewski

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

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00:49 - 01:15

Lucas McCurdy

So excited to get to talk to you, because this is actually a really interesting topic to me personally. I think we have a lot in common. It's going to be a great conversation because resident experience is something that you are a master at. So let's talk about that, about your background and why resident experience has been so important to you and how you've been able to kind of change the paradigm there within the industry.

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01:15 - 03:05

Danette Opaczewski

Well, I appreciate that. I kind of fell into senior housing. I was in hospitality in New York for 33 years. I started out in finance. And then I always say, once you learn how to count the money, how do you make the money? So I got into operations. but most of my experience in my career has been in boutique hospitality.

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Not assigned to any big brands like Marriott. And I learned as I went that those hotels compete on experience. They don't necessarily have all the policies and procedures and all the marketing efforts behind it, but they really create an energy that is contagious. And so I worked for Schrager for ten years and really learned that attention to detail staffing.

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The way you look at the customer is really important. And sometimes actually drives value to the business from an overall financial, operating perspective. And sometimes it's intangible. But it shows up as people say, “Yep, that's where I want to go.” “That's the money I want to put down.” And so for me, when I kind of got offered to come in to work in senior housing, in the independent living space, I did a lot of studying, researching, and talking to a lot of industry professionals to see how I could add value.

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Could I add value? And, it came to me, I'm the CFO for Revel. I'm super excited about what we do at Revel. We're very much about the person and the whole person, not just their care component or the one area where they want food provided for them. You look at everything about that individual, and if they sit within our community, the community itself becomes a great way to live as you age.

And I think the marketing behind this industry needs to be more progressive and more positive. And on the space, instead of combating the negativity that existed over time because it got institutionalized quite frankly, over time. But it's a great way to engage and evolve.

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03:05 - 03:37

Lucas McCurdy

Let's kind of start at the beginning. we have a lot of operators that listen to this, and they may be listening and say, gosh, you know, we really have an opportunity to improve, kind of our first impression and this, this kind of experience and marketing, how we, you know, it's in a very competitive landscape right now.

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Everybody's trying to get those residents when an operator looks at their community, where it's kind of the first place that they start, kind of, if you could walk us through some of your principles and tips on how do we create that experience?

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03:37 - 07:01

Danette Opaczewski

I think first of all, you don't have to come from hospitality to have an attention to detail or an eye for the whole person. And I think for me, coming into the industry, I was surprised at the lack of people outside the industry coming into it. I was really, you know, I was used to having a broad array of skill sets around me on the hospitality side.

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And here I was like, okay, how do I create a culture where people want to come from different industries and participate? Because I do feel like diversity is a big part of creating a great experience. And so I basically started looking outside and saying, what kind of skills do I need and how do I get them in? So we created something called our Culture Code, and it's really great. You know, our mission is to create possibilities and inspire joy. And through that we have eight codes that we all live and work by. And that's the fundamental. When we recruit somebody, we ask them what they believe in. And how does that tie into our culture code? Because we can train you, right?

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That's part of what I think is important. And so we started with that. And when I, in 2020, when I started, you know, the first two executive directors that I got to hire, I came, I went into hospitality and said, come try this. And, you know, there was a little kind of back and forth on what does it mean for them and is it the right thing? But we now have an amazing group of executive directors. And in order for me to do that, I had to increase the salary to bring those professionals in. And that really helped, to be quite honest, because it created a career path for our team and it gave people. And right now we have some executive directors who are from seniors, we have some from multifamily and we have some from hospitality, but the combination of the thought coming through that group is great because we get to see all sides when we have a conversation about what's the right thing.

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And so for me, that was my first task. Like getting a great executive director and then building a team, having a letting them build a team around them, really, that I always say push the work down in the organization and empower that group. And so we're very much focused on empowering everybody. our concierge, they were very much just sitting there greeting people and things. That job is completely different now. We, we, we put in something called the Resident Experience Program. We've hired a resident experienced director. They are far more than an activities director. They look at the resident experience from pre prospecting through to when they leave us, whether they leave us or stay with us or whatever. We are about that, that whole thing.

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So now the concierge is part of our resident experience program. So they're very professional. They're they're learning and doing more in their job. I find that they always have time, like our overnight concierge, you know, there's a lot of opportunity in that space to get some things done. And so we empower them to do some marketing for us on the overnight or whatever it is that we can do to share the workload, because communities are small and there's a ton of work.

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Right. but I always joke to the business office director, we've also evolved that role, and we turned it from, you know, just being the person that all the residents go to. I always say, you know, the resident should run towards the resident experience department and away from the business office director. And so we've empowered our business office directors a lot more on the HR side.

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On the accounting side, really owning that whole business aspect. And that's helped as well, because it's changed the way the work flows through the organization. and so for me, that's been helpful in making sure the residents have the services they need,

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07:01 - 07:33

Lucas McCurdy

One thing that stood out to me is kind of this idea of delegation and making sure that you're sharing the work. I get to interact with a lot of executive directors. My whole career, I've been fascinated with who in the world. How did God make a person that could be an executive director of a senior living community? It fascinates me. You have to be good at so many different things. How do you address, hiring and cultivating a great executive director? What makes up a great executive director?

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07:34 - 10:24

Danette Opaczewski

One of the things that we did was we sort of redefined the role a little bit, took a, you know, book out of my leadership. I grew up, you know, obviously learning hospitality from the ground up. And I became a general manager in New York. And for me, there weren't a lot of female general managers at the time.

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And what was important was that I had the empathy to be a great have, that great customer skill set, but also financially, the discipline needed. For profit or not for profit. You need that discipline in how you're processing things in order to, you know, satisfy your owners and investors. So, that's kind of what I started with when I was looking at the executive director, like, what's their leadership skill set like?

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Caring for the resident is a piece of the puzzle. If it's the only piece of the puzzle, there really isn't a great experience for the resident because other parts of the business suffer and then that experience for them suffers. So we started with something called a predictive index pretty early on. I said, okay, if I'm going to hire people who don't have the senior housing on their resume, how do I identify the skills and behaviors necessary?

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So with predictive index, we've kind of gone through that piece and that really has helped identify people who sort of fit the job profile as we describe it, kind of you have a natural inclination for empathy or an attention to detail. If you have that, then okay, let's see if you fit into learning the job as you go.

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And so we've done that. And then through that process we started to say, okay, how do I get an assistant executive director? How do I train somebody to become an executive director? And then we started a program called Lit, which is leadership and training. A lot of companies have it, but through the process, identify those people, women, you know, minorities, people who don't normally sometimes have a career path in front of them, but have the passion to want to do it, identifying them early on in their, joining our company and then saying, okay, here, let's work with you to get a path.

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So we've promoted several sales directors into eight lead roles. We have one now promoted into an individual, amazing women who really never saw themselves in that space. But once you unlock the door and say, it's not as hard as you think, because if you build the team around you, that covers them to your point, that's the skills you may not have.

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You're only as good as the people around you. So for me, it was like, don't be afraid because you can have the capacity. If you're really good at finance, you can hire a really great marketer on your team or whatever. And so that's really helped us kind of unlock the fear that I think sometimes people have been moved into positions of authority and responsibility.

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Mid-Roll

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10:48 - 11:18

Lucas McCurdy

Talk to us about the dynamics between, obviously, this amazing program and training that you have set up at the community level, but what I'm kind of reading between the lines is that you also have incredible corporate office backup. It seems like there's a really good relationship there that oftentimes can be a bit of a struggle. It's kind of like, oh, the corporate office wants us to do this. You kind of get that mentality in some companies. Not all. But how do you make that harmony?

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11:18 - 13:43

Danette Opaczewski

Part of the reason I took this role is the size of our portfolio. It's 13 communities. It's very manageable. And it allows me to have direct relationships with both the corporate team and the property teams so I can get things done quicker than other people may be able to do it, or I can have feedback come back to me faster and I think that's kind of important because we are trying some new things in the industry, and you need to have the capacity to be have that foresight.

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Right. I do feel like it can be difficult with corporate at times because they have a mission and they don't know sometimes how hard it is in the community. When you have a meeting and you can't attend it because you have a challenge with a team member or a resident. And so we try to like again, leave room in the day for everybody to work together. We have some, you know, I always call I did something for 15 or 20 years ago and, I wrote sort of a white paper, and it called it freedom within a framework because I moved into a role for a hotel company, and I was sort of struggling with everything getting done and who can do it. And so I said, okay, what's missing? And I said, you know what? I put together a framework of the processes on the operating side. And I said to the general manager at the time, you're free to do your job. I don't want to do your job. I don't want to get in there every day. I want you to love your job.

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I want you to come in. But the framework is the systems you use, the requirements for reporting, you know, the budgeted in a way that you're supposed to achieve. And then go do it. Be yourself. And so one of our culture codes is being you. And it's basically one of my favorites, because if you tap into the things in the individual that makes them a good employee and a good manager and a good leader, they unleash it. And so we did that here. We sort of put together a framework of operating standards and a playbook and said, okay, it's not perfect, but let's try to see if we can make this work as a group. And so we had really come through Covid and did really well to Covid as a group. And coming out of Covid, we really started to look at structurally where there are inefficiencies, right.

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Systems and technology and seniors are only now really moving in a very positive direction. I believe in Cubigo. I brought it in early on in the process I use it. We are very active in how we use it and how we promote it, because communication both with teams and residents is key. I think in the experiential space.

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13:43 - 13:57

Lucas McCurdy

Recruiting and retention for great staff is a challenge for every operator. How have these systems that you're talking about and even this experience in this culture that you've developed helped you retain and attract talent?

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13:57 - 14:58

Danette Opaczewski

We definitely saw our retention improve coming through. You know, Covid was rocky. But we're committed, honestly, we're committed. But we also are accountable. So we kind of draw the line like, this is what we need from you here is when we do succession planning, we do reviews. we look for that. And we also kind of for me personally, I'm a big believer in fair pay and bonuses and incentives. I feel like if you untap that for people, they'll perform. And so we implemented bonuses. When I got into the business at various levels, our resident experience directors got bonuses. Our maintenance directors, we have commissions and incentives for our sales team. And we continue to evolve that. And trying to move that from, from a resident experience perspective of, I think there's more to do in the industry in that regard, I really do. I think that's one of the things with executive directors, if you empower them and reward them in a great way, they’ll deliver the financials that you need. There's a strong correlation there.

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14:58 - 15:41

Lucas McCurdy

I can see how these can really play out well in your organization and how I've seen it not play out in some other environments. And there's always room for opportunity, to face these challenges in the industry. So, a busy day here at NIC. I know you have a busy calendar. Help us round out the show. What are your kind of final thoughts? Our listeners, a very diverse group of people, some are very small operators, maybe small to medium, like yourself and some of the larger operators that think, you know, gosh, I can't implement this. You know, we have hundreds of communities. How do I even tackle helping make this experience great for not only our residents and our staff, but what are your kind of final thoughts to help people?

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15:41 - 18:51

Danette Opaczewski

I was thinking about that walking over here today. We have something called the lookbook and our marketing team put it together, which, again, it's attention to detail. It's having one leader or two leaders in your community who really do have an attention to detail and, so we take that lookbook and we look we go to each community and we say, this is how your community should look and see all your residents.

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I see this every day. So if you leave dirty glasses laying around in your lobby or you have a bathroom that isn't cleaned regularly, or your housekeeping carts are just overflowing and a mess, everybody sees that. And that's not a good look for your team and the residents feel it, believe it or not, over time. And so you can walk into a community, any kind of community and see what's happening.

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And you can, you know, I go in there's very specific ways you can tell is that a well-run property and you don't have to look at the financials. And I think that comes with learning and training and supporting the idea that your leaders should have an attention to detail, should care when you walk into that community, how does it smell? What are people hearing and saying? How do your team members look? How are they dressed? What do they say? Every day? And so part for me. You know, sometimes people are like, oh my God, tonight you're like, so you're so, you know, you look at everything in such a certain way, like, yeah, but I just do a little of that for me and everything will be good, right?

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Because I grew up in a space where you had to do that, there was no you had to create that. And I think my residents truly appreciate it and they love you. And we just did another survey. We do one every six months for my residents. 99% of my residents say this is the best. Just a decision they made. Now, I know we don't provide health care. I understand that, I really do talk to people who are deep into the healthcare space, but I think there's a balance there. I think there's a way to do both, and I think the industry is evolving in a good way to do that. But we do have to look at each individual resident as a person first, care about their wellness and overall thought process and what they want to get out of their life.

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It may not be what you want to get out of their life, but that's what they want and we have to respect that about them because they got to that age. They are who they are. They're going to stay that way. And so how do you build that bridge? How do you offer them educational opportunities? Food? Maybe they've never eaten before, experiences that they never thought they could do. One of my last stories is about a woman who was in one of our communities. She was the first African-American Olympic fencer on the, and I can't remember the date of the Olympics, but she came into our community and she was amazing. And we said, what do you want to do that you've never done before?

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And what do you think that could be? And she's like, you know, I've always wanted to paint, but I'm not very good at it. She is an amazing artist. It just took her a minute to tap into the creativity and the strength that she got out of fencing, and I just say, those are, there's a million stories out there like that, but the marketplace in the U.S. doesn't really expose that. Right. When you look at the marketing behind Cedar, historically, it's always been through a third party referral at a time when you're, you know, you were forced to move into a community versus like, let's just enjoy life as we age and be their best selves. And I think that's what we're trying to do is just create that safe space.

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18:51 - 19:20

Lucas McCurdy

I'm constantly fascinated by the stories that are in the communities that we have here in the United States. It's, it's fascinating. I can go to a far off town in a tertiary marketplace and meet some incredible people. And what a great responsibility the industry has, and a great opportunity to be able to care. And, how's, our older adults and, I commend you for what you're doing because it's great work.

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19:20 - 20:24

Danette Opaczewski

Honestly, it is rewarding even to connect the residents and the prospects in a way that there's a respect for one another. And, I respect the joy that you can have as you age. It does, there's real joy out there that I think we have to continue to tap into. There. You know, I always do. I had one last comment, but I had a food and beverage conversation once, and the food was not as up to par as people would have liked. And, you know, we went through the whole conversation and I said to the team, like, our residents have dined 50% more than you've ever dined in your life. So when they have a complaint, you have to listen. They're our customers. You have to. What are you going to do for them? If you went to a restaurant and you didn't get what you wanted, what did you get for that? It's not a I'm sorry, we'll do better next time kind of thing. And so we've really put in place something I called service recovery, which is there's still our customer every day. We have to be in service to them in a way that they feel treated with respect, like a consumer, because that's what they are in any setting. And so that's kind of a new mindset shift. I think that's happening as well.

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20:24 - 20:35

Lucas McCurdy

I'm fascinated with the complexities of senior housing. I don't know how you all do it. I'm fascinated by it and I'm so glad that you do. Dinette, thanks for spending time with us today at Bridge the Gap. I really appreciate it.

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20:35 - 20:36

Danette Opaczewski

Thanks for having me, I enjoyed it.

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20:36 - 20:58

Lucas McCurdy

And to our listeners, we want to engage with you into this content. I know that you're leaning in and thinking, gosh, we could really improve some things. Or maybe you have some comments to say, here's what we're doing. Well, this really resonates with me. Go to btgvoice.com, download this content and so much more, and we'd love to see you on LinkedIn and like and comment on this program. And thanks for listening to another great episode of Bridge the Gap.

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Outro

Thanks for listening to Bridge the Gap podcast with Josh and Lucas. Connect with the BTG network team and use your voice to influence the industry by connecting with us at  btgvoice.com.

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