Lucas: Welcome to Bridge the Gap Podcast, the senior living podcast with Josh and Lucas. Continuing our series on COVID-19 bringing on thought leaders and the experts in the business to bring to you up to date information about our new norm. Today we are very excited to have a very important conversation about infectious disease. We are bringing on JD Lewis. He is an infectious disease expert and also an industrial hygiene as well as a caretaker to his 104-year grand uncle. So welcome to the program.
JD: Thank you very much. I thank you for having me.
Lucas: Let’s give some context before we dive in to the nitty gritty here on your background. Tell our listeners your education and training.
JD: So my background education wise is a bachelor’s and a master’s in environmental health and industrial hygiene. From there, went into the working world at the EPA. I was a consultant for them in a research triangle park doing an environment, health and safety and the nuclear safety work for them. From there, I went over to occupational safety and health administration where I was a health compliance officer. Spent a lot of time in senior living centers doing investigations. From there and then moved over, had a few other areas and then ended up in the commercial construction business building hospitals, renovating hospitals and senior living centers. So got a real big dosing of infection control risk assessments, Jayco and then worked a lot with the infection control practitioners at each one of those facilities to make sure our activities weren’t endangering their residents and patients and staff members from our activities.
From there, moved over to owning my own business, doing decontamination and disinfecting work. So really mostly, most of every time it’s bacteria and fungus related. Occasionally a virus you know, disinfecting schools, things of that nature for like an NH1, N 1H 1and five virus. And now dealing with COVID. I went to, I was asked to come over to Saudi Arabia last year for the knowledge, 2019 infection control and prevention symposium in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia where I was over there. And my presentation topic was how to disinfect current and emerging pathogens. And from there, now we’re into this unfortunate pandemic is where we are. And trying to share information that I’ve gathered from a lot of the colleagues that I deal with. And have the pleasure and the honor to work with those folks.
They’re the true experts and the ones that truly get out in the do the things such as a Doctor Gap and McGregor, Skinner he’s boots on the ground from Ebola. He was Africa. He’s been here in the States dealing with Ebola and Atlanta and Dallas. Then once the COVID-19 virus broke out he was in Hong Kong for a while. He worked on with the Princess cruise ship. Then he went to South Korea and now he’s back here in the States working with a variety of hospitals and healthcare systems of seeing what their response capabilities are and then training them on the nuances of this virus. I think all of us even those of us in this industry, we kind of started thinking we had a true knowledge base on how viruses move around and interact in society. And this virus has unfortunately written a whole new set of rule book guidelines for us on how do we look at a virus, how do we control it from being spread?
And then my part and where I come in is how do we disinfect, not only surfaces but the air so we can try to control that. Obviously isolation, I hate that term. But social distancing really is not the correct term to be using for this. I prefer the phrase universal precautions. So if you go back to your biology classes and chemistry classes, it literally means that every person, when you look at them, every person’s infected and every surface is contaminated. And if we all start thinking that way, then we start really kind of making that gap and that bridge of distance between us and then not touching surfaces and then touching our faces.
Lucas: Sure. So JD, so there’s a lot of things that have come out since the beginning and this virus has as far as the information that the population has been given has changed tremendously. And there’s been a real knowledge gap since the beginning of just even a few months ago where people were saying, look, this is not a big deal. Why are we making such a big deal about this? But talk to us about the differences from this Coronavirus to even maybe the SARS or the I think it was Myers or you know, those different other and even just H 1 N 1 flu types of viruses. What is the difference here?
JD: Well we’re, we’re looking at is the symptomology of this virus and mostly it’s transmission. You know, I’ll, I’ll avoid some, you know, the medical side of things and you know, we can let the doctors go into that. But what we do know from a symptomology thing, and I just went through this with my brother, he just got over it about two days ago. What you’re seeing is that you feel fine for a few days. You get a little raspy voice. You get a little sore throat and you might have a light cough. Those symptoms typically are going to run about five days and the typically, so what I’m gathering from a doctor, McGregorskinner is day five is a critical day for folks on average that’s going to determine if you start to get healthy at that point in time, you’re in great shape.
Day five is typically then if you’re going to jump into having a fever and then the cough really sets in. The description of glass in your lungs is very spot on. From the folks that I’ve known that have it, they say it’s extremely painful. And the body aches are incredibly much more intense than you would get with a normal flu, muscle weakness, lethargic activities and the need for rest and fluids is tremendous. And typically as well with an H one N 1 H 15 virus, you’re looking at, you know, three to five days of recovery. This one is literally you’re looking at about 14 days to where you’re starting to see a symptomatic activity again. And then this virus has a really nasty characteristic of relapse. So folks think they’re getting better.
My brother was identical to that. He lives about a block away from a hospital, so he thought he was healthy enough. He put on his mask, walked down to the hospital, was told just to go back home and keep self isolating and doing what he was doing. He did that that night. His fever spiked up again. The cough came back intensely and it took him about another 24 hours for that to fortunately subside. What I’m gathering from a Dr. McGregor Skinner is say eight. For those who are really susceptible to this virus is a critical day as well. That’s typically when you start to see people unfortunately they’re going to come out of this or pneumonia is going to set in at about day eight. So those are some of the things that are different with this virus than other ones.
And then that’s just from the health and symptomology side. And then you look at how this thing is transmitted. It’s truly rewriting the books on how this thing is transmitted from the asymptomatic people being able to transmit this disease. One of the things we’re learning now is that once you get healthy, there is still a potential that you’re still carrying live virus RNA in your body and can still transmit this virus. Initially I thought this was about a three day span. What I’m hearing now is it could go up to about seven or eight days. Post getting over this and still being able to spread this virus. So now you’re looking at it. If you do come down with it, 14 to 15 days, 12 days to get over it and then potentially another full week before you’re not even showing symptoms again. So this could be a three week plus event for anybody who gets sick, especially in folks that are going to be much more susceptible to this virus.
Lucas: And JD what about, I’ve seen some statistics that I’d love to get your thoughts on, on how contagious other flu viruses have been in comparison to this COVID-19 and it’s spread amongst when you pass it to one person and the next person and the exponential growth of those numbers in comparison. Do you, can you speak to that?
JD (9:54): Yeah. Thank you. You nailed it right on the head right there. When you said exponential this seems to go more logarithmically versus individual to individual. So, you know, typically a flu virus is going to be spread with your close immediate contacts that might be coworkers. If you’re in an office environment, it could be your family members. You don’t have as much survivability on surfaces as you do with other viruses as you have with COVID. It survives very well on surfaces. Airborne droplets typically with a flu are and that’s why you hear all these doctors and our governments cause that’s what we’re used to seeing is that the virus really only survives in mucus when it comes out in a sneeze or cough. This one here, when you start saying this is being spread, asymptomatically means that you’re actually doing it from breath, normal respiration.
The other area that nobody is really talking about which is a huge issue. What we found in South Korea and China is the fecal oral route. This thing from what I’ve gathered from doctors who are doing initial swab samples, nasal swabs versus rectal swabs. The rectal swabs from what I’ve gathered were far more early detecting than the nasal swabs. Now, I’m pretty sure the nasal swabs have caught up with the technology. I’m hoping. But the rectal swabs are selling that it was surviving in the gut well before any symptomology was coming out. So being spread through bathrooms is one of the issues, right? You now have an organic load that it’s going to survive as well as it’s now just becoming airborne in a bathroom. So if you look at a typical bathroom, I do have a stall and doors and not a whole lot of ventilation, so you can really trap a viral load into a very confined space.
So the next person that goes in there literally now hands, mouth. And eyes, and that’s another difference is as you know, you don’t see a whole lot of viruses being spread through the eye and being transmitted and you know, being able to infect the next person by eye transmission. If you notice the first doctor that reported this out of China, is an ophthalmologist. So, you know I’m not very familiar with the Chinese medical system over there, but I would have to think an ophthalmologist would be the same as most everywhere else in the world and they’re focusing in on eyes, not new infectious disease. So, and I still haven’t been able to connect the dots how an ophthalmologist was able to identify it and I guess because of those symptoms you know, it obviously was in an eye and he was able to see it at some way, shape or form. So those are some of the real true differences with this virus versus the other one. And as you said it does have the potential to spread exponentially and logarithmically was what we’re seeing globally right now.
Josh: JD so you’re kind of blowing my mind here just a little bit and probably my next question, you’ve probably answered some of the questions, but there’s so much information, probably misinformation that’s being scattered, not necessarily from the experts, but the trickle down effect of everybody sharing information on social media. And by the time you get it, you don’t know whether what you’re getting is true or not. And what the source is. Could you maybe just inform us on some of the popular myths right now that you’re hearing and just kinda tell us what the actual facts are?
JD: (13:42) Yes. One would be is that the sunlight kills this virus. It does not kill this virus. So unfortunately setting packages outside and mail and thinking that, you know, you can leave it there for a day or two. My suggestion would be is leave it there. If you’re going to leave it to the sun, leave it out for 20 days and let this thing finally die off of the surface. Or disinfect the exterior of that box. Never touch a box without your gloves on. And, and I always use my respirator you know, when I’m gathering my mail up my take two bags out with my gloves, my respirator, I separate out the junk mail that goes into a bin outside and the garbage never comes in. The other mail goes into a bag. It’s been sitting out on my patio for about two weeks now.
And then I will start to disinfect that off as I finally get some time to disinfect it and I’ll disinfect it all outside and then bring it in. So right now that’s one of the big myths that you’re having out there. Unfortunately, it’s great to have six feet of distance. But the fact that this virus comes out of normal respiration that’s not nearly enough. And then the study from MIT just came out that said this virus can travel up to 27 feet. When it’s coming out as in the mucus of a sneeze, you know, that’s going to start looking at at six feet versus 27 feet. That’s a huge difference in distancing yourself from spaces and people. So that’s a big issue. The other thing I think, you know, we could have seen more of is an educational campaign, right?
What you hear is wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. What does that really mean? And now you’re finally starting to hear 20 seconds. All right, well what does that truly mean? But if you’re looking at it from really trying to stop the virus, I’m going to go to what a surgeon is doing before they go operate. I’ll wash my hands with good amount of soap and lather for at least a minute. And everybody’s like, well, aren’t you overdoing it? And I said, well, try standing there and thinking about what 20 seconds is. And then human nature is typically going to start to shed that off and now you’re on 18 seconds, 15 seconds. And so if you’re going to the minute of lathering and then rinsing, you’ll, that’s what we’re recommending with this when you’re using soap and water. And as most people will say, okay, 20 seconds means that’s the start that I turned my water on, got my hands wet, but my soap in it, rinsed, don’t got my hands back under the water faucets off.
Within 20 seconds, you’re not getting your nails. The underneath the nail bed is a really dirty place. To be honest with you, they should be telling people to cut their fingernails short and avoid that because if you’re touching high touch surfaces, it’s going to get up underneath your nails. You know, they talk about money and cash being an issue. Well, most people don’t carry cash anymore. It’s the point of service machines, the ATM machines that you’re touching, and then bringing that back into the car. And I see people driving around town with their gloves on, right? So it’s just misinformation about how to use the PPE. There should be education campaigns on television of how to put your gloves on, how to take them off, how to pull a respirator on, right? So if you got your respirator, I don’t want to pull my respirator off this way and over my head.
I do want to be down and pull it away and away from your breathing zone and keeping your breathing zone up above your respirator. So just having some basic, true discussions about how to properly disinfect and sanitize yourself and to be prepared and you know, keep your protective equipment, and bad. So when I take this off, I’m not contaminating another surface if I can’t wash. And I’m hearing about now, disinfecting and reusing N95 masks. Well that’s okay if you’re doing it for your own person. But I’m not so sure what the efficacy will be and then how much will this material actually work. The other thing is that there’s a reason why this has HEPA filtered material. Utilizing this as a preventative measure. Shirts are really not, which they’re not the optimum and tested system to prevent the spread of this virus. And then one more thing would be is if you do see the N 95 masks with the exhalation valve on it, right? Cause there might know that little plastic piece. So what you have there is that you have a filtering face piece. It’s only filtering on the inhalation, not the exhalation. So if you have a person who is asymptomatic, walking around and breathing out, they’re not, it’s just misinformation being spread.
Lucas: And that’s a good, good point there, because those masks were never made to prevent viruses. Those masks were made for construction workers.
JD: Yes, exactly. Those are for particulates in the air. And you know, it’s been on the news, you’ve seen and heard about it a little bit, but you know, this size here is, is three microns and pore size and this viruses, that biggest one micron, I mean, you’re looking at it, trying to collide and stop and bounce off of these things.
So that’s one of the areas that, you know, we’re working with. The other areas are, especially in high rise buildings, multi-story buildings, your event stack is a single system going up, right? There’s from a construction standpoint, you don’t have pipes running less than right horizontal. Your bathrooms are going to be stacked on top of your bathroom. So one of the things that we’ve seen and this was seen in a previous the 2002 to 2004 SARS outbreak there was some evidence and data that the virus was being spread through the plumbing system. That was also seen in some of the Princess cruise ship rooms where it’s going up and they’re not sure how somebody who was isolated and rooms above and so the only connection truly is, is the plumbing system. And so normally that is an unforced gas, right?
Methane is lighter than air, so it’s going to rise and it will take that virus up with it as it’s rising up. Cause that’s the air current. That’s what it’s supposed to do. But you know, if you get a air current that’s now from a wind pushing down into that pipe, you’re now going to have it looking for openings in that plumbing system. So considering if you’re in a multistory building and you’re starting to see cases going up, chances are it’s being transmitted through your plumbing system. I just saw a report now that they’re thinking, you know, it has survivability and water that I’m not sure of at this point in time. That definitely needs some more research. But I definitely know if it’s surviving in our fecal material, it will definitely survive in the effluent pipe of the plumbing system.
So, and then you have the methane gas line as well going out. So those are some of the areas that still need, you know, further investigative work and studying there. But as a disinfecting professional, I have to take all that into consideration right now and making sure that an air conditioning intake system isn’t right up on the roof next to all of my vent stacks from my plumbing work. And if that’s the case, then I’d recommend making sure you bring in a plumbing expert and an HVHC expert and try to figure out where your retracement is coming from into, you know, potentially into a mechanical system. Most buildings that I’ve seen and I’ve even seen this in hospitals before where that filter media is and changed out on a proper maintenance schedule. Or there might be gaps in that and you now have fresh air intake coming in where it should be filtered air. So you really want to get all aspects of your maintenance and facilities engineering team to gather, to start to think about where is this thing moving and traveling from versus just putting it all on your infectious disease person.
Lucas: Yeah, that’s a great point. Josh did, did that spark any questions on your end?
Josh: I mean, a million questions and one thing, you know, I just think from a simple standpoint to the maybe miss understanding, misinformation. You know, right now everybody’s, it seems like scrambling to get PPE and you hear all this information about mask and then you see, I think a lot of people are trying to rally together to manufacture things. And I know even here locally mask is something that you see people just sewing and doing all these and there are all these cool designs and patterns and now I’m hearing you say this and I’m thinking, Oh my gosh, are they doing all this work in vain and actually putting people at risk because they think they’re protected by this little piece of fabric that they’re putting over their nose and mouth and it’s probably doing zero good. Is that sound about right?
JD: Yeah, it’s much more of a feel good story than it is a practical use story. And so I don’t want to say that it is not helping because you know, during times of people want to feel like they can contribute and so that’s a wonderful thing to do. But truly, if people want to contribute then they said, look to helping those institutions purchase the proper material. They should also be doing social isolation. I hate to say that phrase but really quarantining yourself and avoiding outside contact. You know, you hear commercials now, Oh, come on in. It’s minimal contact. I’m sorry. That’s not at all going to help. So the spread of this disease down. And so, you know, I understand that people are trying to keep the economy moving and keeping people at work. That’s important. But if we could literally get into following what, you know, Bill Gates is saying, and some of these other leaders are out there, especially on the medical side, are saying is, you know, we need to shut down for three, five to 10 weeks, whatever that number is. It’s outside of my pay grade. But they are correct. We need to follow the lead of all the other countries who have been able to control this. And three to three and a half months. Everybody said, Oh, look, China got this undercover and control. I mean, they went to draconian, I mean, tremendous lengths to make people isolate in their rooms. We obviously can’t do that here in our country. I mean, we’re not going around welding people’s doors shut. But that was the reason why they were able to get this thing under control in three and a half months.
Remember if it started in December and they’re just finally, Whohon just by like, I’m out of quarantine today. So I mean, you’re looking at four or five months of them being in lockdown. And my fear here is things like grocery stores, right? That’s going to become the epicenter in every community for transmission. You know, everybody’s walking through there. I go to my grocery store, I might be one of two people out of a hundred that’s wearing any kind of face mask and gloves everybody else is in there and their normal daily workout clothes, working clothes. And you know, it’s unfortunately that’s where we’re going to see a lot of transmission from the air in surface contact.
Josh: Gosh. So let me ask you, so maybe a point of the conversation I’m sure our listeners, those that are watching probably their eyes are getting wider and wider and bigger and bigger, questions are emerging in their minds. And they’re probably maybe even like I am filling a little bit of a sense of like shoulders starting to slump, a sense of defeat and thinking this overwhelming to hear about. But fortunately, we were having a little bit of a conversation ahead of hitting record and you as an expert in this and knowing everything that you do about it, you actually say, hey, there’s hope. We will be able to get past this. There’s certain ways to handle this. So what’s your perspective on it?
JD: Yeah. definitely. I do know that the medical community, not just here in the States, obviously, but globally, there is a lot of smart people working very hard on finding medicinal remedies to this. And then hopefully we can come up with a vaccine. This virus is as viruses do, right? It’s not, it’s a nonliving organism. It’s just protein and RNA and it’s just trying to find a cell to get into. So if we can figure out where the mutation process is and why does this virus seem to be able to bind our ACE to a receptors very well. And then once it cleaves into our cell, it seems to be able to dump a tremendous amount of RNA into us. And that RNA seems to be able to bind to our cellular level components.
So I do know from that fact that’s out there. And then just from the personal side you know, we talked about what can we do to make sure we’re feeling good? The folks that I’ve talked to who have gone through this virus and have recovered and the doctors I’ve spoken to and the other frontline healthcare providers have all said the same thing. Hydration is critical. So I think the one thing we can all start to do is to start saying, okay, how can I start to make sure I am hydrating with the proper fluids? Water is important. Liquids with electrolytes are important. I’m staying away from fluids and liquids that cause inflammation in our bodies and poor getting on the proper diet is important. I’m hearing that processed sugar when they’re sick and they eat something with processed sugar, some of the folks that I’ve talked to are very, very big into nutrition. They said that as soon as they ingested it, about 15 minutes late or 30, they felt their symptoms really ramping up after processing, eating processed sugar. If they got off of they seemed more flatline with their symptoms versus having it spiked up. Vitamin C, vitamin a and vitamin D. Again, I’m not saying this from a medical standpoint, this is just anecdotal stuff that I’ve heard from folks that have had the virus and have gotten through it. Those seem to really help with maintaining energy as well as meaning that the proper nutritional balance in your body because your taste buds go, your appetite completely suppressed. And so eating is not really what you want to be doing.
And then even having the energy to eat is very difficult. So my thought process would be to get ahead of that curve, get your body super hydrated, get your nutritional levels up to maximum level so that your immune system can really help fight this thing off in the event that you do get. And then the other components are, is truly thinking about disinfecting surfaces, right? If we’re disinfecting it and the surfaces and the air that’s going to be really, really helpful in slowing the spread of this disease down, especially as we start to being able to come out of isolation. So yes, unfortunately I think saying all of us out in public venues and real respirators is probably going to be the new future for us for a lengthy period of time.
You know, the folks over in China and South Korea, Saudi Arabia, right? They got hit really hard in 2002 to 2004 with the SARS virus. I mean SARS virus. So they understood from their exposure before kind of how to react and prevent this thing from spreading. This is really new to us in our society here in the States. And how do you really kind of combat it? And so again, if you go back to that universal precaution, everybody’s infected and every surface is contaminated, you can now strategize how you protect yourself and your residents. And if you think about it that way, right? You’re now going to be able to start disinfecting surfaces. And I would even start to train people if they’re into one of those settings where, you know, they’re pretty ambulatory and, and have their faculties right, train them on how to properly disinfect their spaces, train them on what it is they’re doing.
That way they have the education and then they feel empowered to help themselves would be truly what we need to be doing to flatline this virus out. That’s probably, you know, out of the what we’re hearing out of governments and everybody else flat-lining this virus is truly what we need to do. And I’ve talked to even my neighbors, I live in somewhat of a retirement community here. And they didn’t really understand what flatlining means. So, you know, we, we talk about that, right? They really need to take the information they’re sharing out of our leadership and make sure the person that’s understanding this is probably at somewhere between a fifth to eighth grade reading level. And so you have to get it to that level so that everybody can understand it, not just the medical community and a few folks like myself that are in the engineering and disinfection world, right? So, you know, if I said flatline this, what does that mean to you?
Josh: I mean they’re going to have to dumb this down enough to where Josh can understand this, right, Lucas?.
Lucas: On that as we kind of round out the show, so much good information, JD. And I’m not asking, I know no one has a crystal ball here, but this is the first week of April 2020. What are we looking at here? And I know there’s a million different factors, but when do you think we’re able to pick our heads up out of this thing?
JD: Do you want my truthful answer or should I give a feel good story answer?
Josh: We want truth, not feel good. Yeah.
JD: Yeah. Unfortunately I don’t see this virus going away and what’s being prescribed in our timelines. What I’m seeing and following in the Southern hemisphere is not giving me a very good feeling about it disappearing. We might see a slow dip in this but I’m extremely fearful that this virus is going to make a second come back round. So being prepared now getting your supplies and now and thinking ahead and being prepared for the potential that this thing comes back around is very intelligent, forward thinking. Because if I just really have a horrible gut feeling from what I’m seeing and who I’m talking to with the medical community and the experts in disaster medicine and biology is we were really hoping that the temperatures and the new seasons were going to slow this down.
And I don’t think so. I mean, if we look back at the last SARS outbreak Saudi Arabia got hit super hard in August. So I mean, you’re looking at 120 to 130 degrees of survival temperature down there. So unfortunately, you know I would like to give better information out. And again, the reason is we’re not doing the complete separating of people to slow the spread of this disease down or, you know, people going out social gathering and doing the things they’re doing isn’t being helpful to slow this down. You know, and the other thing we talked about myths, right? And they’re finally coming around and saying, is it that this thing doesn’t really impact the youth? Alright. The first thing you heard was, Oh, you know, it’s over 65, over 65, over 65 if you have health underlying health conditions again, that’s completely false. I mean, we just had a, what, a few week old infant die from this virus. I mean, this is a tragic virus that impacts all ages of life. And so the 20 something year olds, 30 something year olds, and even those that are old or that think, oh, this virus isn’t going to get me, you know, I’m healthy. I know I can beat this virus. That’s the other group that’s going to get it. They’re going to help perpetuate this virus for a very, very long time. That’s a shame.
I mean, we’d go back to Typhoid Mary, right? We, you can now put every name in the book as COVID-19 spreading group. So that, that’s the shame. So, but you know, if you can isolate people down the good thing is as well, right? They’re starting to get a lot more testing capabilities. You know, I’m seeing almost instantaneous reading testing. So once those test strips get out, we can truly identify who is carrying this virus. Then we can help to slow it down and isolate people that are carrying this virus. But until then we’re fighting an invisible enemy on a global scale.
Josh: So, JD ending a little bit on a lighter note, tell us a little bit about your great grand uncle and a little bit about your personal situation.
JD: Yeah. So I said, you know, we got lucky on two fronts. One, you know, I’m in this business, so I’ve been able to be fortunate enough to have some masks for us. And then, you know, I’ve been able to keep his caretaker in the morning from the VA. He’s a World War II veteran survived that, survived the great depression. So I certainly was not going to allow this virus to take him out. So we’ve been in isolation since about March 3rd. And I got really lucky cause he’s a huge bingo fan, go into bingo. And that’s again you know, being social is extremely important at all ages, especially the older you get, the more social interaction you need. And they canceled bingo, I think about March 5th. So if they hadn’t done that, isolating him would have been brutal. So, you know, cause he’s social. That’s the really good thing about, you know, where we’re at. But then people look at you and go, Oh, you know, you’re getting really anal about what you’re doing and this, that, and the other. I’m like, listen, I got to protect his life. And so that’s, that’s pretty much what we’re at.
Josh: Well, thank you for sharing that personal story. It shows the heart you have. The fact that as busy as you are right now, especially the amount of time you’ve taken with us to share with our listeners, with our audience. And you know, I can only think in times like these, the platform what we hope we’ve created is an opportunity for those that listen, those little watch to have experts like yourself to gain information, education that informs them for positive decisions, positive outcomes, quality outcomes and we’re better together by sharing that information.
JD: Thank you. And, and let me add this. As, you know, obviously people are looking for protective equipment, are looking for disinfectant. To be honest with you, I’ve talked to a lot of indoor air quality consultants and they don’t even have protocols on how to disinfect. If any of your listeners out there have any questions about, you know, how do I truly disinfect my facility, I’d be glad to share any information as well. If you have any best practices out there, we’d love to hear them. You know, because sharing information right now is truly what we can do.
Lucas: That’s great. Great. Thank you so much JD. This has been an incredible conversation. Thank you for doing what you’re doing and we’re going to stay in touch with you as we walk through this together as an industry and as friends and as human beings. And we also just want to give encouragement to all the healthcare heroes out there, all the frontline staff, the executive directors, the nurses, the caregivers. Thank you for what you are doing and thank you for continuing to show up and do this hard work of caring for our older adults. And we just want to also encourage you know, Josh, we have some outside listeners that are not in the senior living industry. We want to encourage you to continue to monitor this situation and do this universal precaution, social distance, isolate to help flatten this virus out. We really, this is a very serious event that’s taking place and we’re committed to trying to bring on experts and bring you the most accurate information and encouragement that we can. So we are thinking of you, we’re praying for you and we believe in you. Thank you for listening to Bridge the Gap.