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The senior living industry has a voice. You can hear it on Bridge the Gap podcast!

177: Freedom Series – The Isolation Challenge

Caregiver, advocate, speaker and Founder of Caregivers for Compromise, Mary Daniel, shares the emotional story of taking a part-time dishwasher position at her husband’s memory care community during the lockdown. She witnessed the impact of isolation directly through her husband Steve, and now, her mission is to empower caregivers to boldly advocate for their loved ones.  Mary encourages other families and caregivers to join her in the fight by lobbying, educating, and making changes for seniors.

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Florida Woman Takes Job At Memory Care Facility To See Husband During Pandemic

Woman takes dishwashing job to be near husband with Alzheimer’s

Lucas: Josh, you know, we’re highlighting the Freedom Series here in July, and we have a number of really great conversations that we’re having with people around a bunch of different topics. Today we have on the show, Mary Daniel, and she is the caregiver advocates speaker for Caregivers for Compromise. What an amazing conversation we just had, her story of being a caregiver for her husband who had early onset Alzheimer’s and walking into the pandemic of last year. She actually took a dishwasher job so that she could have access and be able to see her loved one, her husband, and have an incredible conversation.


Josh: It is an incredible conversation. An incredible story. I tell you what, this is definitely one of my favorite guests in conversation over the last year. I can’t wait for our listeners to hear this. It’s a perfect example of how when you are passionate about bringing about positive change, the manner in which you conduct yourselves and the positivity of raising your voice to ignite that change and building relationships in the process. This is just a great example to all of those listeners out there. We’re at a very interesting time in our industry that is poised to bring about positive change for years to come. So listeners, we’re looking forward to you hearing this and viewing this on our YouTube channel. Stay tuned for this.


Lucas: This is going to spur a lot of different conversations. This is a very complicated topic. So lean in as we interview Mary Daniel, welcome to Bridge the Gap Podcast, the senior living podcast with Josh and Lucas on an exciting freedom series. We have a very special guest on our episode today. We want to welcome Mary Daniel. She’s a caregiver, an advocate, and a speaker for caregivers for compromise. Mary, welcome to the show.


Mary: Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here.


Lucas: We have been so excited to meet you and to all of our listeners that are just tuning into this. We’ve had a couple of conversations with Mary in advance of this, and we have been utterly fascinated with her story. Mary, you know, many of our listeners in the senior living industry probably know who you are. There was a big story that came out last year during all of the lockdowns and shutdowns that we had in the industry of you taking a job as a dishwasher. Tell us more about that.


Mary: So my Husband, Steve, is 67 years old. He was diagnosed eight years ago with Alzheimer’s two years ago, I made the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make and that was to place him in a memory care center in Jacksonville, where we live. And he was doing wonderful, he was thriving. He really enjoyed being with other people, which was really the deciding factor to me. I had him isolated at home by himself, and it took me a long time to realize that he needed to be with people. And I thought I was doing the right thing by keeping him at home and caring for him here. But the truth was he needed to be with people that he could interact with on a regular basis all day long. Because I still work, I wasn’t able to do that. So it turned out to be a wonderful decision.

He had a seat at the front desk. He greeted everybody that came in the door and all of a sudden on March 11th, I went in to visit. As I normally do every evening, get him ready for bed. They called me on March the 12th and said, you can’t come back. I immediately called the executive director and said, that’s not going to work for me. I go see him every day, I have to go in to see him and they said, let’s just be patient. Let’s see what happens. This is all brand new. We’ve got 15 days to slow the curve. Let’s just see. And I said, I’ll do anything, I’ll get a job, I’ll volunteer, whatever I need to do. Well, the days turned into weeks and the weeks turned to months and I started raising my voice a little bit and getting some attention here locally on the news locally and knew that he needed me as a dementia patient.

I knew he couldn’t speak. He speaks a lot, but I can’t understand what he says. So FaceTime window visits were just, it was just too hard. He cried during the two window visits that we actually did try. And I knew he was declining. He lost 10 pounds in the first month and I knew I had to get to him somehow. So I started trying to get to the governor and that story gained some traction here locally on the news. And it did get the attention of the corporate office of Steve’s facility and out of the blue, in fact a year ago this month, they called me and said we hear you want a job. And I said, yes, I do. They said, we have a part-time job if you’ll take it. And I said, I’ll take it. And then I asked them, what is it? And they said, it’s a dishwasher. So I said, all right, dishwashing, I think I would have preferred activities. You know, something, I was thinking a little bit more on that line, but dishwashing was the opening and dishwashing is the job I took


Josh: My goodness, what a story, you know, there’s so much to unpack here, Lucas. You know, I remember, I think you sent me the story from a headline or something off of Instagram. I can’t remember. And I was just kind of mind blown at the tenacity you had. And it was very inspirational, it was very touching. I remember during that time no one really knew what was going on. No one really knew exactly what to do. Everyone was just trying. But I do remember to the point that you made that the window visits, I think, as you referred to them, weren’t working out really well for you. I know a lot of communities all across the country tried that, and I did hear the feedback from a lot of the administrators as well, that many of those window visits caused more trouble than what they were worth for the residents inside, because they just couldn’t understand, particularly those memory care residents with Alzheimer’s and dementia. They couldn’t understand why they could see their family, but couldn’t spend the time with them. So, what was it like? I really, what was it like going in and seeing kind of the other side. You had been from the family side now you’re entering more of the operational side working with the teams. What was that transition like? And what was that team like that you joined? Because I assume they knew you were coming in as a family member as well.


Mary: It was an interesting transition. Thankfully, I had been in a lot, I saw Steve every day. So I knew a large portion of the staff that was there. They knew me, they knew I was involved. I knew the chef and a couple of the cooks that I was now back there working with. I will tell you, my first impression is, wow, this kitchen is pretty clean. I’m impressed. You know, how much time do we spend in the kitchen in a facility zero. Right. But to go back there and actually see the operation was actually fascinating because I had no idea what was going on. Part of my responsibility was mopping the kitchen floor every night. And I will tell you, it was truly spotless. I mean, the way that they cared for the kitchen and the way that they prepared their food was something.

I had no idea that they were doing so well at that. It, you know, I was impressed. So it was a really different dynamic. Now there was a part of it. I did have a couple staff members who weren’t so keen on this, who do I kind of think I am coming in and getting this publicity about a dishwasher job. Wouldn’t that be their job? That’s what they did for a living. And so I worked very hard to overcome that with them. I worked harder than I was the best dishwasher they’ve ever had. I wasn’t about to have anybody say that I’m not doing my part, that I wasn’t actually truly working. I remember my sister said to me at the beginning, she goes, you think they’re gonna make you wash dishes? And I’m like, no, I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to wash dishes, this is not just a bluff job. And I’ve told many people, I didn’t mind the dishwashing. I did my mopping the floor. It’s been a long time since I’ve mopped a commercial floor, every single one was the hardest of the work. But I also felt that I had to put in my due and I had to go above and beyond and even do work for them so that they could understand why I was there and that I was on their side. I’ve always been on their side and I’ve always fought for them. Even before this, I’m knowing how important it is to have the staff that know me, know us and want to take care of Steve, because of those relationships that we built,


Lucas: Mary, you know, I’m just fascinated by this story. And I mean, you’re really this kind of unique intersection of a caregiver family member. You’re just all in, and this has transpired and transformed into something way more than just a dishwashing position. Walk us through the following months of the lockdowns and what that did kind of to your family and your relationships and what it’s turned into.


Mary: It has been really such a journey. I can’t believe that this all has taken place in the way that it has and has built into something it’s been life-changing. Certainly for me, the direction of my life, the direction of my career has changed significantly because of the lockdown and because of this dishwasher job, I am eternally grateful to Steve’s facility for giving me this opportunity. Um, I don’t know that they knew what it was going to turn into when they did it. I think it was sort of first off. I’m not exactly sure. They thought I would take it being the dishwasher job and then they could sort of cross that off the list and say, well, we offered. But I don’t know that they knew that any of us knew what was going to happen when I went for my first shift. I will tell you that five hours, it was a five hour shift. I did the lunch and the dinner dishes as part of my training. And when I went to him, I knew that this was such the right decision and would be a wonderful blessing to both him and I, when I walked in the door, he did not know I was coming. Even today, he doesn’t know that I was a dishwasher. He doesn’t understand, he doesn’t understand the virus. He didn’t know that there was a virus. He didn’t know that I was there as a dishwasher first. I would do my shift and then I would go see him. So as not to confuse him about that, but when I walked in the door, my biggest fear was that I was missing this window of opportunity. I knew that right now, he knew me. He knew our love and he needed me. I told him on the day that he was diagnosed the day they said the word at Mayo clinic here in Jacksonville. I told him in the doctor’s office, I will walk with you every step of the way. You will never be alone. I will hold your hand every single day so that we’re in this together to the end. And I didn’t get to do that for 114 days. And so that’s what I was fighting for to get back to him during that window while he still knew me. And that’s what I said to all of the people that I talked to, the governor and all the people in between that I tried to get to. I mean my question to them was what am I, what am I saving him from?

I mean, this is our time. Today is the best day he’s going to have moving forward. And I’m missing today for what, for a year from now to go in and see the shape that he’s in a year from now. He needs me today, not a year from now. And that’s why I fought so hard to get into him. And when I walked in that room that day, his back was to me and he turned around and the first thing he said when he saw me was Mary. And I knew that I wasn’t too late, that I got back to him in time. And I get every time I think about it’s just overwhelming to be able to have him say my name and hug me for that first time and be able to tell him that I’m here and I’m not going away again.

So from there, it just took off. I realized that the local paper, I mean the local television station did a story on that and that story started to go viral. They shared that obviously throughout the news networks and it started to go viral. And that’s when I realized I’ve got to do something else, because I was hearing from people that were finding me on Facebook, telling me we want to do that. What can we do? How do we get involved in this? And that’s where the Facebook group Caregivers for Compromise came in. Literally about three days after that first ship stayed up all night making not only the national Facebook group, but we realized we needed to do a group in every single state because every state was different and we needed a place where people could go for two reasons. Number one is just simply to share their frustrations and their heartbreak and their stories of what was happening to them and be with people who understood what those stories were, were alive, because they were feeling numb themselves. But the second, maybe more important reason was to start advocating for our loved ones in our own state. As a group, our voice is louder than by ourselves. And some of those state groups have been tremendous. And the way that they have grown, thousands of people have come together in these states and are all working. Some still, very actively working on getting the laws changed in their states so that we can be sure that this doesn’t happen again. Well,


Josh: This is truly inspirational on note to me and Lucas, which is why we wanted to have you on the show, but much more, you’ve really created a movement that in a relatively short amount of time has inspired and motivated and rallied a lot of people to take what I would say, not just complain about whats wrong, or what is broken, but really work positively to bring about change. And so I’m so inspired by that. And I’d like to talk a little bit about some of the things. I mean, you’d shared with us before we started recording that it is actually standing between you and your vacation is us right now. So thank you for taking time. I know you need a much needed time to get away, but you’re also headed to Washington DC, you’re working on legislation. You are lobbying hard. You’re rallying family members and individuals, and even operators that feel strongly about the things that you feel strongly about. So what specifically are some of the things that you are working on to change, to make better?


Mary: Let me say this. My main purpose, me personally, my mission is to empower caregivers, to boldly advocate for their loved ones. I have been disappointed, surprised at the number of people who are afraid to advocate. And my job is to empower them that you have a voice that needs to be heard, and you need to boldly advocate, not rudely, not ugly, not yelling and screaming, but you need to boldly advocate for them in a positive way. And the way that we do that, the way Caregivers for Compromised believe that we do that. My phone, it’s funny, my phone types this out before I can do it because I’ve typed it in the Facebook group. So many times educate yourself so that you can educate them. So when we learn the rules and we learn the guidelines and we know what is allowed and what not is what is not allowed, then we can go into these facilities and have intelligent conversations with the leadership there and say, you are not following the guidelines.

Here are the guidelines. And that’s one of the things that I see the most and is the most disappointing because the industry is from a small mom and pop all the way to these large, huge corporations. You see a wide variety of knowledge of enforcement, techniques of philosophies, and regardless of where those are, where they are coming from, I want our people to be educated on what is allowed. We are Caregivers for Compromise. And I think that’s an important part. We don’t want the doors thrown open, we don’t want, we know COVID kills. We know why the lockdown was done. We understand the reasons why it was done, but our full title of our group is Caregivers for Compromise because isolation kills too. And that’s what we want to focus on is compromised doing what’s right in the best interest of these families, the best interests of the families and the residents to get the best case scenario when all of those, so that whatever the law is going to allow, whatever the CMS guidelines or the CDC guidelines are going to allow, we deserve to be following those in a consistent manner.

So one of our biggest missions is to educate our members on what their particular state allows, what the CMS guidelines are, so that they know more than the people that walk in the receptionist at the front desk. Who’s telling them, no, you can’t touch them. No, you can’t go near them. No, you can’t go in their room. We need to know that. So that’s our number one mission that’s going to continue. And we still have many states that are not allowing touch. I mean, it’s unbelievable. The governor appointed me to a task force here in August of last year. And in September, he allowed Florida to have an essential caregiver designation that allowed everybody to go in and touch and hug. That was a real deal breaker for me on this task force. And I had a few discussions with the Florida surgeon general, and because he said, no, I’m not going to go along with you touching.

And I said, why can’t I touch my husband as a dishwasher, but I’m not allowed to touch him as his wife, that makes no sense whatsoever. And he agreed, finally saying, let’s put an asterisk on this. Let’s see what happens if we have any uptick in COVID cases because of family, I say, we have to come back and revisit this. And I said, fine. I can live with that. We’ve had zero. The state of Florida has had zero. I had a conversation with the department of health yesterday. We have had zero cases of reported COVID from, in a facility, from a family member in the state of Florida, the essential caregiver designation worked. So what we’re doing next, our group in our New York caregivers for compromise, the leader there has been working, Carla has been working with a representative, Claudia Tenney. We have a new bill. It’s an HR3733 that will be introduced at a national press conference on the steps of the Capitol on June the 30th. I will be in DC for that. And then we’re going to have a round table with congressional members to discuss what this bill involves. And it basically involves allowing for two family members, let me correct that it’s not family members, it’s central caregivers. So the actual resident can determine it doesn’t have to be family. It can be someone else that they are determined to be their essential caregivers, they’re allowed. If this ever happens again, they’re allowed to visit inside the facility with no lockdowns and follow the guidelines of staff. So we have, I call it a marketing plan of how we will start next week, educating our members on what this bill looks like in plain language.

What does it say? What does it include? What does it not include? Because for example, it does not include assisted living facilities that do not take Medicare and Medicaid dollars. That’s my husband’s facility, for example. So we’re going to educate and lay out. We have it all written and we’re going to give it to segments. We’re going to do some recordings while we’re in DC. So over this path of the next few weeks, we are educating our folks. We don’t want them to call their Congressman and not know what this means and not understand it. We have a responsibility to be actively involved in our loved ones’ care, and we need to know what the rules are so that we can educate those who don’t know what the rules are. And I will tell you that it is incredibly empowering to people. When they have that knowledge.

I have seen people be so afraid that when they speak to anybody, people are afraid of retribution to their family member. And I hear it over and over and over that they don’t want our group to be public, for example, because they don’t want to get in trouble with the management of their facility, who they know is also a member of the group. And what I’ve said is I want everybody to be a member of this group. I want facilities to be members, I want their administration, I want a Congressman. I want politicians. I want everybody to see this in real life to see what this looks like to have someone in a facility and especially when you’re locked away and have all your power taken from you to be the caregiver that you are designed to be in legally.

So I think what we’re doing is really I’ll tell you, I never dreamed that this would be something that I learned about or knew about when I placed Steve in these facilities, but it has become very apparent that this is a part of the world that needs attention, but this industry and that the way that this industry works, the way that it’s funded, the way that it’s staffed, it’s about time that this spotlight was on this so that we can really talk about it instead of it being hidden away. And if COVID has done nothing, but just that then that’s a positive side of such a negative thing that has happened to our country.


Josh: Well, you know, I personally just really appreciate these efforts. I talk about this with Lucas a lot. It’s just, it’s what you’re doing, it just seems like common sense to me and I know there’s a lot of fear out there today in general, in society with people afraid to really say anything about anything, positive or negatively, just because of retribution, whether that’s societal or family, or with a facility or community, but there are so many people that I’m having conversations with on a daily basis related to this issue that you’re fighting. And many others that are being emboldened to go about making a positive change because of your actions, not only the actions, but the manner in which you are taking action. It’s such a unique thing that we don’t get to see too much. I don’t think in our society. So I applaud that. So for our listeners, for our viewers that are going to be watching on social media and YouTube, how can they join? How can they help you? What do you need? And where can they find information on how to join this, this cause


Mary: They can join us on Facebook, that is our main platform. We have groups, Caregivers for Compromise because isolation kills, to our national group. We post everything nationally, but we ask everyone to please also join your Florida Caregivers for Compromise, your Georgia Caregivers for Compromise. Because in those states we have leaders who have stepped up and taken a leadership role on a volunteer basis and they are leading the way for change. In your particular state, we have states that have thousands of members in them that have done amazing things. Mary Nichols, in Texas, they have just passed an essential caregiver bill that was just signed by their governor passed unanimously. And they actually even have an amendment to their constitution that will go in front of voters in November that will make essential caregivers a part of their state constitution so that this right can never be taken away.

Again, it is incredibly significant. The work that she’s done and the work that she’s led, the people of Texas too. She started with a wee wee thing. She did a traveling sign campaign where we have signs that say isolation kills two and we put names of people on them. They traveled all over the state of Texas. We did it again in Florida. We followed suit with 300 Floridians names that went to Jacksonville. The governor’s office allowed me to put them on the lawn of the Capitol in Tallahassee, in March to mark the year anniversary of the lockdown. I mean, we’re doing some things to get people’s attention and let them know we are here and we are fighting for this. Cause I want to say that, to be sure that everybody understands, I want us, I want family members to partner with the administration of these facilities.

We need to be working together, not against each other, I’m there to help. And in my case, they certainly all know me well and know that when I get there at five 30, I’m there to take care of Steve for the rest of the night. I help them. I’m there to say, Hey, y’all can cross him off the list. I’ve got him, I’m going to get him ready for bed. I’m going to do all the things that need to be done for him. I’m going to get him to sleep before I leave every night, I’m there to help. I’m not there to hurt. I’m not there to watch. And I also found that even during the lockdown, when we have each other and we’re working together, there’s accountability to each other. I’m accountable to you and you’re accountable to me for the work that we’re doing for the same cause. And that is for my husband, for the person that you’ve come to care about. In most cases, you’re there to care for him. And so am I, so I want us to work together. This is not an us against them, but I do tell our folks that we’re big on never saying, take them out of there, move them, get you have to, you know, that it’s such a personal decision to do this. And in so many parts of the country, they’re such limited resources in terms of where you can place them and how it’s going to be paid for. So to throw out to people what you’ve got to move well, taking them home, taking home, that’s not how we talk. We talk about how we are going to fix this together so that we can make it better for everyone. And, and part of that though, is holding places accountable that make a conscious decision, not to work with us and not to help with us.

And I tell our group as a consumer, I will make a decision. Personally, I will make a decision. Do I want to work with a company who wants to help me care for my loved one? Or do I want to do business with a company who tells me, yeah, no, you can’t come in. Even though it says that I can and I’m having to fight them and I’m having to file a complaint against them, is that the con the business, the business type, the business philosophy that I want to do business with, and it needs to become that consumer choice. If you’re afraid of retribution from a facility against your loved one, because you’re asking to go in and be within, especially when the law allows it, they’re in the wrong place. And you need to do something about that because that is not acceptable.

We need to work together. I don’t want to do business with someone who is trying to keep me from my husband. I want to do business with someone who is trying to get me to him. And that’s what Rose Castle did, that’s what Steve’s facility did. And that’s why I’m a huge fan of those companies, because they said, Mary, we’re going to reach out to you and we’re going to make this happen for you. And because of that, look what’s happened in return. So it’s super important to be sure to stress. We want to work together. We’re better together. My groups are better together and working with each of these facilities so that you have somebody who says, wait a minute, that doesn’t make sense. Why are you guys doing that? That’s not what the guidelines say, let’s follow the guidelines because we want to be safe.

I tell the group all the time, especially at the beginning, we cannot be part of the problem. I mean, here I am jumping and screaming from the top of the mountain. I can not bring this virus in, right. I have to be held accountable to be safe and do everything in my power to keep everybody safe. And as I said in Florida, we literally have had zero cases of family members bringing it in because we do want to be safe and we do want to take care of them. And we want to do the right thing with the facilities working together.


Lucas: Josh, you know, there’s a phrase that we use and it’s called be the bridge. I mean, Mary, there were so many different buzz phrases that we use. This is a very complicated topic, right? And it’s a very unique intersection of what we advocate for, which is changing the perception of what the general public believes that senior living is Josh and I’s experience. Josh as an operator developer and me as a vendor partner to the industry and spending a lot of time in these communities, is that these communities are actually very safe there. The care, the level of care that is taking place is actually very good. And that’s a part of what we are trying to change the perception of the senior living industry. And I think that there’s a very unique complexity here and for people to understand there, Mary, there’s some of our listeners that may be thinking, maybe feel illimited, a little intimidated by you know, what you’re advocating for because they may not fully understand it.

And I think the important thing here is to understand that you want to be this bridge of the loved one, the caregiver that is placing, making a very difficult decision to place inside one of these communities and saying, I want to be a part of elevating this. I want to be a part of advocating for this. I have made this choice to trust the senior living industry with my loved one. And my experience has been good in general, outside of this big issue of lockdown and pandemic. And how can we work together? Can you speak to just in closing, because this certainly will not be our last conversation on this topic. And with Mary in closing, speak directly to the senior living operator that is listening right now, that is thinking, I’m not so sure I can get on board for this. We’re trying to care. You know, we’re trying to fence in and gate in the safety of the residents that are here. We don’t want them to get covered in all these things. Can you speak to that person right now?


Mary: I want to work with you. I want us to talk about things, talk about this legislation. Talk about the guidelines in your facilities so that we understand them together. So that we’re on the same page. What happens is it feels as if we’re adversarial with each other, that I’m trying to get something from you that you’re not willing to give. And that is not how this relationship needs to be. I learned that placing Steve was the best that I made for him. He was so happy, he still is. He is blissfully happy being around his family there every single day, blissfully happy. I love it that I don’t have to worry about him when I’m not there. I’m going to go out of town for a few days. And I know that he’s well taken care of while I’m gone. I am so grateful for that peace that comes from that, knowing that I have him in the right place.

I want to work with people to educate and have dialogue. I’m not always right. Absolutely, there are things about this industry I don’t know, restrictions in the industry that I don’t know, but I’m smart enough to know that I can understand what you’re saying to me and that we can be partners in this instead of it being me against you. And that’s what if we can just get that cooperation with each other. I know that Steve is better when he’s with people who love him and care about him and that’s me and that’s them. That’s the people that are there every single day. So I would say to them, let’s sit down and have a dialogue with each other, learn from each other because there’s so much, I don’t know, but I will understand that. And we can take that forward and not just with me, but even every family member, family councils, to have conversations, to have people involved. There are people in our group that don’t even know what a family council is. So those are the kinds of things that we can do. Our group is growing, the Caregivers for Compromise Facebook group. Every administration can join. It is wide open. We want you to talk to us and give us your perspective in a very respectful way. And I think if we could just do that to start off, then we’re way ahead of the game and we’re moving in the right direction.

Josh: Well, you know, here’s what I hope. If our listeners, if our viewers take nothing else from this, is that the change that they desire, whatever that is, it starts with them. And I think about you and what a catalyst you have been for positive change, and you could have thrown up your hands and said, this is bigger than me. This is a big corporation. These are legislative issues. I’m not familiar with how to attack that, but you started with what you knew to do and, and walked on the pathway of positive change and look what has happened. So I really think we always talk about improving quality of life for our elders in these communities, improving access to quality services and healthcare, and improving the ability to lower costs for care of quality services. And I think the best place for that to happen is at the local level with individuals, just like you’re doing, working together at the private level of family and essential caregivers with the providers and being a solution and working together.


So Mary, what an honor to have you on our show, congratulations on your efforts, we applaud you were your biggest fans and, and also let’s also give a shout out to that wonderful community that you have partnered with who early on in this, I think took a big risk because they didn’t know what was going to happen either, but they said, you know what? We have that resident and their family member at the forefront of everything that we’re doing, we’re going to partner with them to get through this together. And I think that’s a wonderful story that we’re glad to tell here on Bridge the Gap.


Mary: None of this would have happened without them. I don’t know that they knew exactly what they were getting themselves into, but ALG senior is the corporate owner out of Hickory, North Carolina and Rose Castle at Deerwood is where my husband is. And I will be eternally grateful to them for allowing me to do a dishwashing job.


Lucas: And there we are, it’s a great conversation, and it won’t be our last. Our listeners are going to want to connect on this. We’re going to further the conversation and for anybody listening you know, this was recorded right at the end of June. This is being released now in July. And so we will follow back up on these legislative issues. This is a part of our freedom series in July, which we’re very honored to participate in. And then also we want to let our listeners know if you’d like to meet Mary, she’s going to be attending our VIP Ignite Experience event in Nashville, August 16th and 17th. We’re going to be honored to have you there to host you there to be a part of that experience, to come shoulder to shoulder, knee to knee, eye to eye with the people in this industry that help influence these big decisions so that we can build trust and ignite change. We’re going to be honored to have you there.


Mary: I’m super excited about it. It’s going to be a ton of fun. I’ve already made my reservation. So,, I am there and I can’t wait.


Lucas: Awesome. We can go to BTG to connect with Mary. We’ll put her information in the show notes. It’s going to be a great continued conversation, this won’t be the last, we wish you well, Mary. Thanks for your time today. And thanks to all for listening to another great episode of Bridge the Gap.


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177: Freedom Series – The Isolation Challenge